Podcast
In this episode, Matt Markins and Mike Handler tackle a provocative idea: what if the church needs to move from a children’s ministry mindset to a child discipleship mindset? Matt explains that after years of Awana research, one of the clearest insights is that many churches are still building ministry around activities and methods rather than around the deeper objectives that actually form lasting faith. Programs like VBS, Sunday school, small groups, and midweek ministry are not the problem. The real question is what those methods are designed to produce.
Matt argues that “children’s ministry” often becomes shorthand for tactics, programming, and logistics, while “child discipleship” focuses on outcomes, theology, and philosophy. He uses the example of Awana Clubs and VBS to show that the same curriculum or ministry model can produce very different fruit depending on the underlying culture and objectives. In other words, the issue is not merely what a church does, but why and how it does it.
To illustrate this, Matt introduces the metaphor of the old map and the new map. He describes seeing a sixteenth-century map and imagining how grateful we would be for what those mapmakers accomplished with limited tools and knowledge. At the same time, no one would use that map for modern navigation. In the same way, churches should honor the ministries of the past while also asking whether some of the assumptions behind children’s ministry need to be updated in light of new research and clearer biblical-philosophical insight.
That leads to the heart of the episode: Awana’s child discipleship philosophy. Matt summarizes the findings this way: child discipleship is a biblical practice designed to form lasting faith by helping kids belong to God and His kingdom, believe in Jesus Christ as Savior, and become like Him and walk in His ways through the power of the Holy Spirit. These three dimensions, often called the 3Bs—belong, believe, become—are presented as the three primary factors that tend to form lasting faith when they are all present over time in the life of a child.
Mike helps unpack this by comparing the 3Bs to NASA’s moon mission. Just as NASA had to focus on a few critical objectives rather than many scattered priorities, churches also need clear disciple-making objectives. The conversation makes the case that belonging is highly relational, believing is deeply scriptural, and becoming is experiential and life-on-life. The goal is not just a busy children’s ministry, but a ministry that helps children root their identity and faith in Jesus.
The episode closes with a pastoral challenge. Children are always being formed by something—social media, peers, cultural narratives, or other communities—so the church must be equally intentional. Matt and Mike urge parents, pastors, and church leaders not to abandon ministry activities, but to align them around the larger work of disciple-making. Their conclusion is clear: the church should not settle for activity-driven ministry when it can build toward lasting faith through belonging, believing, and becoming.
Show Notes
Main theme
Move from an activity-centered view of children’s ministry to an outcome-centered, disciple-making vision of child discipleship.
Key ideas from the episode
- Awana’s research raised a crucial question: what if we changed our thinking from children’s ministry to child discipleship?
- Programs like VBS, Sunday school, youth group, and volunteer systems are valuable methods, but they are not the end goal.
- The same ministry model can produce different results depending on the culture and objectives underneath it.
- The “old map/new map” metaphor challenges churches to evaluate whether inherited ministry assumptions are still sufficient.
- Awana’s core child discipleship philosophy centers on three objectives: belong, believe, become.
- Belonging is relational, believing is scriptural, and becoming is experiential.
- Lasting faith is most likely to grow when all three are present over time in a child’s life.
- Children are already being formed by culture, so the church must be intentional in its own formative work.
Memorable ideas
- Children’s ministry is not wrong, but it can become too method-driven if it loses sight of outcomes.
- The goal is not fewer ministry activities, but better ministry alignment.
- “Belong, believe, become” gives churches a framework for evaluating every program and practice.
